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Session 2 was lost to a technical problem. The following, session 3, refers back to it enough to convey the gist of it...
M We've covered a lot of things that you've discussed in print over the years that are still timely, because the scene remains much the same and changes slowly and so on; I'd like this article to remind everybody that you're someone who's been thinking and talking about these things for a long time, and that this is part of that continuum, but is also something of an update, with new things covered--very much an observation of now as well as the past. To review a bit…we didn't get into your own work too much yet, which I want to do; and we didn't talk much about the future, which we'll get to too. But when we were talking about the past, what emerged--mainly from your talk about the Southern strategy--is this picture of the history of the music as being something uniquely of the 20th century. You were referring to the late 1800s a lot, and to the 1920s, and you painted a good picture of how the music emerged at first from this European paradigm that defined it and presented it to the world at first, in a lot of ways. The course of the music's development was one of getting outside of that framework--being outside of it all along, from the beginning, on its own terms, but in the terms of the larger world framing it, constantly reaching to get beyond it, to varying degrees successfully, up until the 1960s, when you and your peers came along. The trend of the times then was very much a quantum leap outside of the Western/American framework and a reach to the global roots and potential and possibilities. After that little window of the '60s and '70s, we saw a regression in the '80s back to the old co-optation game of the Southern strategy. So that was very much the thrust of our last session.
What I'd like to do at this point before we go on to the other things is explore what you introduced as ethnic and racial coalitions and politics, the concept of those things, to get our bearings and situate ourselves in terms of your work and what you've been active in. I'm thinking here of, as you mentioned before, your constant involvement from the beginning with not only the African American tradition, but also what you called trans-Germanic--Wagnerian, Stockhausen; also you mentioned a Jewish presence in terms of Schoenberg. Obviously that's been an important element in your work. You also mentioned trans-Asian, and I want to get into that a little bit. Tell me how you see this big paradigm of racial-ethnic identity politics, and cultural politics, where the Europeans have been on top, and then challenged by African Americans, and where the black middle class has turned that challenge into sort of a mirror game, by claiming the one-up position on the hierarchy rather than getting out of the power-political game altogether. I'm interested in the two sides of the coin here. First, re: Wagner, you're well aware of how Wagner's reputation has suffered as being tainted by Nazism; all your colleagues in Germany dismiss him for that--yet you embrace him in spite of the problematic repercussions, the flack you've taken for your similar embrace of European American musicians. I think it would help readers understand how you've managed to keep this position if we talk about the light side and the dark side a little bit.
A Okay. For me, then, what we're really talking about is some attempt to understand this time period, the concept of the modern era and all of what that concept implied, as far as what tenet components would comprise the variables that all of us as human being would find ourselves dealing with in the last 100, 120 years. By the term "Southern strategy," I want to be clear with this; I'm not only talking about the "New Orleans phenomenon," I'm talking of the political psychologies and strategies that have dominated the domain of information and vibrational dynamics in American culture, and what that domination would pose for the erection of quadrant politics, coalition politics, ethnic politics, intellectual dynamics, and the resulting decisions that would come out of that alignment, and how that phenomenon would set up the constructs of the modern era.
For myself, I see my position as consistent with African Americans after the Emancipation Proclamation. I have from the beginning sought to find a viewpoint that would allow me as a human being to participate in composite reality, in the sense that I wanted to have an experience that would reflect my interests, those things that I've discovered in life, and to have the possibility to integrate that information, and hopefully to evolve in a way that would be consistent with my beliefs. The concept of the modern era would also of course have a spiritual component, and that spiritual component--especially the trans-Christian aspect of it--would also fuse on the tri-plane the various axiomatic tendencies that have become the accepted norm in this time period as far as general perceptions of reality. It is from that point that I'll try to respond to your question.
In seeking to explore and learn about history, I think the most basic focus that I can come up with at this point would be that period of exploratory recording that we generally associate with Alan Lomax and, later, John Hammond. It would be in that period when we would see the manipulations to contain idiomatic and vibrational quadrant spaces concerning African American affinity postulates, and the gradual move to create alternative quadrant spaces for African American experiences as opposed to integrating those experiences into a composite platform that reflected American vibrational dynamics. It would be with those quadrant political strategies that the first echelon of idiomatic parameters--i.e., "African American music"--would be undertaken.
I read this morning in a magazine that some basketball player who's making multimillions--who, of course, is angry, since all African Americans are angry, whether it's justified or not, since anger has become one of the qualities that our young people seem to embrace, which is to say it's become almost a minstrel tenet, what has happened with anger in this time period. This young man is doing his hip-hop CD, and the article talked about how foul this CD is in terms of language. For me, it triggered the early notions of how the African American community would gravitate toward blues, how in the initial gambit of what we now call race recordings was to present the African American community as being more fascinated with "blues" than with composite initiations. I disagree with that viewpoint. I think of the American master Abner Jay, who spoke of his work and himself as the last of the minstrel musicians. I recall that when talking with Mr. Jay, he talked about his struggle, and finally his rejection, or the rejection of his music, by the African American community. For me, Mr. Jay's experience and the conversation I had with him was indicative of the profound forces at work.
M Let's just say that he was a man you met in the South…
A I met Mr. Jay in Tennessee, when I had the opportunity to go perform there.
M And he was an itinerant musician who worked out of his car…
A Yes, and sold CDs of his music; I have about 20 of them. Incredible music.
M If he's the last of the minstrel musicians, you obviously mean that in a praising kind of way…
A That's right.
M But you were critiquing this period as being like a regression to minstrelsy, so what's the distinction?
A The distinction is that what we call minstrel music is complex. There are at least three or four different levels. There's the first level of European Americans recognizing the creativity in the slave quarters as a component for attraction and assimilation; two, there would be the response from the African American community that would mimic the mimicers; and three, there would be a contingent of African American creative musicians who would seek to parlay that polarity--that is to say, to take the original and dynamic components of that experience, and attempt to do something with that.
M Where does Abner Jay fall in that?
A Abner Jay would fall into that group. The fourth level would be minstrelsy as an "ism," that being a parameter that would become part of the idiomatic character components that would be used to define the identity state of what is "correct" for African Americans--i.e., translating into Amos and Andy, translating into those components and ideas that would form the early attempts to frame African American vibrational dynamics and identity.
M Now while we're in this period of--you know, Abner Jay being very old and going back to the minstrelsy period in a way that reflects the natural human complexity of it in the way that you like and identify with, and since you also identify with the opposite end of the spectrum, of post-Emancipation African American culture embodied in people like Frank Johnson and other composers…
A In fact, this is where I was going with this. Part of this gambit, and this idea that through the race records the marketplace manipulators would frame this viewpoint that the African American community was only interested in blues…part of that gambit would involve sacrificing the composite creative spectrum, especially the creative experiences taking place in the North. It would be in that context that the thrust continuum of experiences from the African American composers like Frank Johnson, William Grant Still, James Reese Europe, Will Marion Cook--this continuum would be sacrificed in terms of the significance of their input as conceptualists and composers. What we would have instead would be glorification of folk music into blues, with the solidification of race recordings taking the position that the African American community was really an outgrowth of the blues psychologies exclusively. This is my point.
M Do you see, then, Abner Jay and the black composers, especially the opera composers--we had opera composers in the 1800s too…
A That's right.
M Do you see these opposite poles on the same spectrum in a composite reality sense?
A Yes. If we were to look at the emergence of the great American musics, we would be forced to look at the fusion solidification of Irish and African American music moving into the country string-band continuum, which would later set up propositions for active rhythmic-logic folk musics, moving into country music and rhythm and blues, all as one unit, as opposed to how it was segregated by the marketplace because of social reality, political reality, ethnic reality, and finally racialist/racist psychologies. That would be one tenet component of the modern era.
M And we might add too that the thing that came to define whiteness, which is country-and-western music, had a lot of black input all along too…
A In every period, until it was impossible because of the African American community and musicians' community backing away from it. By 1920, 1930, the string band tradition would become Europeanized, exclusively, and it would be at this point that the historiography would define that continuum as a European American one. So again we find ourselves looking at the dynamic implications of the reductionism that has played a role, at the beginning, even, in the entry of the modern era psychologies.
M Okay, now let me move from there to Wagner, because he was in this time period too, late 1800s.
A Yes.
M So whatever was going on in America with the African American community, composite reality, Frank Johnson and the other composers who went to Europe themselves, Wagner was establishing this poetic-logic mythology of the Northern European, Nordic mythology in his operas…
A Yes.
M …and also establishing his musical innovations. How, staying with the composite reality framework, what is there of interest in Wagner to an African American post-Emancipation guy who's interested in composite reality?
A For me, your question is complex and dynamic, as of course you know it is. Wagner would signify the next juncture in trans-European progressionalism, a juncture that would redefine the components of the trans-Christian movement that solidified in Rome. In fact, Wagner would solidify the axiomatic tendencies, the tenet components of the trans-Pythagorean information continuum--
M As opposed to the trans-Christian?…
A …in the sense that his music would accept a composite aesthetic viewpoint that existentially would fulfill--well, I mean, one, total integration of the trans-European experience coming to Glastonbury, infusing the European mystic tradition with the Northern European mythic components.
M What do you mean by Glastonbury?
A Glastonbury was the last mystical center, coming from Rome, extending through continental experiences, tracking the experiences of the great European peoples moving from the southern part of the continent and expanding all the way up to the north. Historians talk of the gap in European mysticism that occurred in the Dark Ages and was found again in the Middle Ages; that gap would be the break in the acceptance of the great classical information that came out of Greece, that information went into the Islamic nations; it would be in the Islamic cycle that the phenomenon of belief would posit another echelon of information related to affinity dynamics permeating and affecting the science of music--i.e., the Sufi movement--and it would be only later that the Europeans would re-adopt that information. In that time period, for instance, the Council of Trent, when it came together, that meeting would be a point of definition for reintegration of the mechanics of Aristotle--the faulty mechanics of Aristotle--and concepts such as the infallibility position would be reinforced and assumed again. But the European mystic information that Wagner tapped would also involve, like the idea of Parsifal as connected to the brotherhood of believers who would assume the philosophical position of "redeem the redeemer," and that phrase was a code phrase. Christ died and gave his life for us; we can redeem that act by fulfilling the tenet structure of Christianity. But it was more complex than that; "redeem the redeemer" was also another way of describing the profound experiences of Parsifal and his legion of men, those being that they would cohabit with non-Europeans, and in doing so would become weaker. Suddenly, the story of Parsifal would be the story of the European man finding his way back into the pure tenet structure of trans-European spiritual dynamics.
Of course, the implications of this idea would establish the basis for a concept of a pure Aryan continuum. Wagner in this mythic structure was subtly commenting upon the continental infusion of the trans-Jewish people; he was also commenting on the dynamic implications of the colonial experiences. The Europeans were traveling now outside of the continent, and they're coming back with stories from China, from America; they're coming back with the kind of stories that, however one chooses to look at them, made clear that other mythologies and psychologies did exist on the planet. Those experiences would challenge the information order of the trans-European experience, as well as its spiritual dynamic. On one end we would have, in the Middle Ages, the Protestant oppositions; so all of these factors were challenging the Catholic, principle psychological-spiritual position. So Wagner used the occasion to reinforce the principle spiritual disposition that emphasized the importance of adhering to the fundamental spiritual component. Glastonbury, then, would be the last European mystical school…for instance, the writings of Hermes Trismegistus, resulting in the concept of light and darkness as polarities, light as positive and black as negative, non-positive. The European mystic tradition in Glastonbury would be the fulfillment of those spiritual tenets that sought to clarify the principle spiritual line as opposed to the polarity of the Protestant challenge, as opposed to the intellectual complexity that the new Jewish intellectuals would bring into continental Europe, and Russia. Wagner, then, would go to the Northern European myth structures--Parsifal, and his son Lohengrin--as mythic characters that could be used to portray the fall from the "correct" spiritual stance that the king represented. Parsifal was like a guy who was basically stupid, and he had to be stupid. Glastonbury makes that connection: King Arthur pulling the sword from the stone. All of this involves not an intellectual stance, it involved an understanding of the importance of belief, and also of love and union. So Parsifal would reject the lady who wanted to bring him down--this again would be another Christian iconic axiom, the women having this negative role. That negative role was installed in the classical Greek period, because all of these motherfuckers in the classical period had a negative disposition toward the women, because the women for them were related to the trans-European goddess continuum, which was overthrown, and the problem with the women was that the women were interested in composite reality, and in balance and holistic philosophies. The women had to be put in a quadrant, because the classical Greek scholars had started to understand the value of dialectical models that could be used to…like Gaelen, to explore medical science…
M Rationalism.
A The rationalistic mode. So were talking about Plato and Aristotle, as guys who would take the world culture information, especially from Egypt, and politicize that information. And also rationalize it, which also carried an ethnic psychological component. Remember, Pythagoras, as great as he was, was also open for the political gambit of that time period; Pythagoras would establish an occult position on one end, and on the other end, he had the kind of flexibility that would allow for his system to be integrated. He would reduce composite phenomena into acoustic phenomena, so Plato's Timaeus set up the propositions for that transfer. That's why the Timaeus is so respected in this period; it would, on one hand, talk of the shining city on the hill that Reagan would later appropriate; and, on the other hand, the Timaeus and Pythagoras would say when something happens, the "it" of the happening could be explained by its acoustic relationships. A very subtle change, but a profound one. So suddenly we're at the point of the sacrifice of composite pitch dynamics into rationally related pitch schemes.
M This is the beginning of Western modalism and tonality, isn't it?
A Thank you. And meanwhile, the ladies, someone like Sappho, for instance. Sappho, and the reason her work was imported, in terms of the oral history that came down…Sappho was the restructural master who, rather than singing only of the god, which was the historical myth position of the ancient Greek music…Sappho started to include her life in her music. Self-realization. That was a mystic position that was also Egyptian. This was another reason why Sappho, the trans-feminine continuum, was not necessarily falling within the new dynamics that were coming, because they were including individual experience as part of the aesthetic. That had to be quadranted off, and later not built upon.
M Now while we've gotten to there, let me digress. One of the areas we talked about off tape the last time was this issue of the tradition of hermaphroditism, or homosexuality, and also feminism in the music, that is sort of coming to the fore now. When I was a kid, and coming up in jazz, it was a real macho kind of area; but now we get information about Miles Davis and Sun Ra, Cecil, stuff about their sexuality being more open than it would have been in the past. I'm thinking of this ancient tradition in the West and all over the world of this blurred boundary between genders, the image of the hermaphrodite, as being sort of a fertility image, and very involved in culture and the blurring of borders. And this is what we're talking about, the drawing of borders and the blurring of them here.
A So homosexuality would be one of the quadrants that would be sacrificed in the modern era.
M And yet the Greeks were a homosexual society, and part of their misogyny was tied up with that.
A Well, nowadays the contemporary conservatives, in the past 20 and 30 years, have tried to posit a viewpoint that homosexuality was something that was invented in 1960 or something. It's obscene. And part of the struggle for homosexuals in the last 2000 years has been to overcome the trans-Christian gambit that would be the spiritual and mystical fulfillment of those postulates that would come out of the Dark Ages. This, for me, is a European, and trans-European affair that is part of the complexities, the trade-offs that Europeans would find themselves dealing with. This phenomenon is a component that emerges and re-emerges and is suppressed. We can talk of Allen Turin, for instance, the great mathematician/computer visionary who was never given credit for his work because he was a homosexual. So we're talking of the continental European experience that would be transposed in America, but then in America the African Americans, by becoming the Other, the homosexual would be situated as the other Other on the tri-plane; and only now has assumed the position where there would be the hope in the next time cycle of our culture finding a healthy balance where human beings could have a right to live their lives. So all of these components have to be included to understand the axiomatic tenet components that comprise what we call the modern era.
M Moving from Sappho, then, up to one of your next big metaphysical feminine influences, and back into the Northern European mythology, Hildegard of Bingen is a woman in German history who really helped, along with Meister Eckhart, bring to the fore the German language and cultural identity…you know, the Germans were the barbarians for awhile in Europe, coming out of the savage North. What I'm trying to get at here is your affinity for the German culture in your music, in Wagner, and his myth. What I hear when you talk is that just as African Americans came into America from outside the Christian continuum and from a whole different history in Africa, including a lot of concourse with Islamic influences, and indigenous Egyptian and African traditions and religions, so too did the Northern Europeans come in as barbarians to Christianity rather late in Europe; and when we get into Wagner, we see them getting back in touch with the mythology that…like you said, sort of a return to the roots. Is part of your affinity, as who you are and what you're dealing with from the '60s on…you know, in the '60s a lot of African Americans were concerned with getting back in touch with pre-Western roots in Africa, even if in a mythic sense, just to get out of the whole slavery experience and get back in touch with whatever was before that, including outside of and before Christianity. Is part of your affinity for Wagner and his move to do the same thing for Northern European identity a recognition of a similar kind of experience?
A I would say yes. But to respond to your question, I would have to put it another way. In the '60s, I was interested in trying to understand composite reality, and Africa was a component of composite reality; but I was never interested solely in Africa, or in Europe, or in any one projection as much as just wanting the right to be interested in whatever I was interested in at the time.
Now there are several parts to your question. Hildegard von Bingen, for me, is significant, because like Sappho, and Wagner, she adopted a first-person relationship with her work. She felt empowered through a mystical connection in the same way that Sappho would have an aesthetic that included her life, moving toward self-realization. Hildegard would receive her information through her relationship with the heavens, and from that point would define her own understanding of the sequence, with a more intervallic component of sequential logics, that would distinguish her from her colleagues.
M You're referring to Sequentia?
A Not just that, but the methodologies of that time period in terms of Gregorian chant, and the components of it. I think Hildegard would make much broader jumps in her material than what was the norm. Hildegard von Bingen would be a point of definition for composite aesthetic mystic narratives, moving toward Wagner. It was Hildegard who would compose the first of the spiritual musics and narrative dramas, allegorical good and evil experiences on the earth and mystical plane. From that point, Wagner would, centuries later, decide to create a composite aesthetic music, to integrate composite information, linking him to Hildegard, who linked back to Sappho. That continuum, as far as I'm concerned, is not always understood, but it was a heavy continuum. That is my link to Hildegard, Sappho, and Wagner.
M So is Wagner also someone who is part of that link because, in some way, his project of digging into Northern European myth, in the way that you've described, is also a process of self-realization?
A Yes. Not only that: on the technical plane, Wagner is not a guy who wrote the string quartets in the same way as his colleagues; his music does not affirm the formal mechanics that he inherited from the great Italian tradition. His music would create new formal states; his music would explore tonality based on his own value systems, and his music would provide a context to demonstrate the state of the state information, whether we're talking of the state of the new brass instruments, or of the new notation that had been clarified by the great Dutch restructuralists in the Ars Nova movement earlier; Wagner would create his own rules and build a music so awesome that not only could it not be denied, but that everything that would come after his music would have to define itself in terms of his music, either building on it or rejecting it.
M So this kind of brings us to this trans-historical group of people that you call restructuralists.
A But let me add another guy: Scriabin. Scriabin would be the Russian equivalent who would respond to Wagner. After Wagner, the challenge would be to create a composite aesthetic holistic psychology and fantasy state; that's what the Mysterium was going to be, had Scriabin lived to complete his platform, but that platform was responding to what Scriabin had learned from Wagner. So the tentacles of this holistic music, and the great Ring Cycle, would bring in the animals again, with the humans; would deal with incest, with the dynamics of the relationship between men and women. Tristan and Isolde--
M You mean things that had been undermined by Christianity?
A All of the things that Christianity could not solidify and stamp out; Wagner would take the Christian experience and the greater experience from composite reality and, again, bring them back together. Again, animals, dragons that talked, father and son, mother and daughter, and the adventures of lineages: Parsifal into Lohengrin…The dynamic implications of Wagner's work touched on everything.
Even the great trans-Jewish mystic component could not undermine the great Wagnerian aesthetic--but in the work of Schoenberg, the seeds of linear development would evolve, in the concept of existential pitch sets. So my connection with Wagner is complete. He was not afraid to talk of love--not just Christian love but love and Christian love. He would explore propositions that later would lend themselves to interpretations that could be called racist, but in fact the dynamic actualness of his music transcends modern era psychologies that would have to take into account the dark side of Europe and what resulted from the Nazi experience; Wagner was way before any of that came together.
M But he did publish a lot of polemics against Jews…
A And in those polemics, he was consistent with the trans-European continuum, and with the trans-Asian continuum, and with the trans-African continuum, and with the Native American continuum later. What we're really talking about is how human beings relate to the Other.
M Well, what is it about the Jewish--
A --and Wagner has to be separated from Hegel. We tend to, in many cases, take formulizations from Hegel and put those speculations on Wagner. Wagner was not perfect; he was looking at a changing Germany and a changing cultural dynamic, and, yes, his viewpoint was a racialist viewpoint, that's for sure, but does that mean the dynamics of his viewpoint necessarily would result in this Holocaust? I think that's a leap that is not necessarily a correct reading, because if that's the case we can look at every--
M Jesus.
A --we can look at Jesus, at every continuum with respect to that proposition.
M Would you describe what happened with the way the Nazis appropriated Wagner, and Nietzche, as something like the German version of the Southern strategy in America?
A Oh, I would most certainly make that connection. Not only that--and this is the importance of Glastonbury, and Ouspensky and this whole northern corridor of European mysticism--when we talk of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, we're really talking of a trans-continental adaptation of Trismegistus' concepts and psychologies. Now Trismegistus, of course, was Egyptian; we can call him a racist if we want, in the same way we can call Wagner a racist, but how was Trismegistus to foresee the Ku Klux Klan? The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan are related to the evolution of this viewpoint of Aryan purity, and lightness representing purity, and blackness evil, and later, with the social darwinist psychology, as applied to humanity, with the African peoples being given the lower positions. The KKK would come out of those psychologies, and would base their aesthetics on the Northern mystical tenet components, applying them to social dynamics in America. Would I make a connection between the Holocaust and the Southern experience? I most certainly would, but the Southern experience came first, so I would rather say it the other way around.
Yes, the Southern experience would be the first of the modern era's social reality experiences, as applied to the political-psychological domain. The World War II experience would be connected to the Glastonbury summation components, but that experience would happen after slavery.
M And also we could point out that in Nazism there's this big component of occultism too, in the way Hitler and his circles used it to get around the Christian morality structure.
A The Christian false morality structure.
M But still in a way that…like you say with Wagner, it is a leap to move from Wagner the composer, who was just getting in touch with composite reality through this glue that we're starting to see of putting yourself, your own life, into the--
A Center of the mix.
M --yeah, and having that be the engine of innovation.
A That would make the difference between the great Italian tradition, from Monteverdi on. Wagner's decision to reject the formal components of the trans-Italian musics would represent the fulfillment of the vertical harmonic position. We usually say Stravinsky represents the fulfillment of the vertical rhythmic position in terms of complexity; but in terms of harmonic evolution, suddenly this one guy would fulfill the harmonic spectra of the music. Rhythmically, his music would set the psychologies that would be fulfilled by Stravinsky; whether Stravinsky is more or less complex is, in a way, irrelevant. The genesis psychologies--that being opening doors to the exploration and fulfillment of propositions--we can look at Wagner's music as a point of definition for that.
M With Schoenberg, if we move into him as some part of a Jewish tradition as well as a German tradition…how do you explain the musical mechanics that you've adopted yourself in your own music as much as anything else, the twelve-tone thing, as being a manifestation of these ethnic European, longstanding ethnic politics and identity politics that you see incarnate in America's Southern strategy? Because Schoenberg was reviled by the Nazis as decadent…
A For me, the great Jewish "trans"-diaspora has been profound and dynamic. That experience would alter composite intellectual dynamics on the European continent; and Schoenberg for me, like Scriabin for the great Russian peoples…by making the decision to reject the vertical models, and establish his own existential models--and by the way, my work is not twelve-tone; what I took from Schoenberg, what I took from John Cage, what I took from Wagner and Sappho, and from Monteverdi--was the right to define the terms of my music system, and build the kind of structural and conceptual models that respected and reflected my experience; that's what I took from them. When I came to understand that many of my heroes were my heroes because they found something fresh, because they accepted their lives and found their own way, and defined their own methodologies; it was at that point that I said, okay, I got it, and I want now to start building my own models.
M I want to get into that when we get into your work, but first I want to spend some more time in this background stuff. You mentioned Stravinsky, and it seems to me that your influence has been a lot heavier on the Schoenberg side than the Stravinsky side; yet, as I saw in my book, I saw a lot of connections between you and the other Gemini, Stravinsky. Since we're talking about these strains of ethnic European identity politics and so on, how do you relate to that big debate early in 20th century, that Adorno generated, in terms of whether Schoenberg or Stravinsky was the way to go? What have you taken from Stravinsky?
A I have nothing but love for and identify totally with the great trans-Russian tradition, period. As far as I'm concerned, the historians have not included Prokofiev enough; Prokofiev is the Andrew Hill of that time period, and his work has been thrown out of the mix, because of politics…but I support Prokofiev.